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Darkest day? Shit we lit that place up like Vegas.
It is to laugh.
Ask the Chinese whether the Japanese “did anything wrong” in wwii…
Or the residents of Pearl Harbor…
Or the veterans of Bataan…
Or the denizens of countless Japanese prison camps…
revisionist history is dangerous. I would have dropped the bomb without remorse…so would Japan.
To quote Obama: “We won!”
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Sic transit gloria mundi (so shut up and get back to work) -
How about the 1,000,000 casualties on the US side and the five million casualties on the Jap side if we had invaded in 1946? I guess Channel 2 would mourn for the enemy and not the soldiers, sailors and Marines spilling their guts out on Hokkaido and Honshu. But the Cause means the suffering is only on the dark peoples side. White folks on the beach? Fuck them.
The header is misleading. The darkest days were Jan 1, 2014 in Pasadena and at the Fiasco Bowl.
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Father in law started his tour of duty in the Phillipines, going ashore to pave the road for MacArthur’s return. Finished his tour in occuppied Japan, so he saw a lot seriously nasty shit on his way north.
His hatred of Japanese ran deep, and he would be branded as racist today. Not that he would care. Never heard him swear except when it had something to do about Japan, typically something like F…ing Japs.
Still surprised at how dropping two bombs to end WWII draws so much criticism. Wonder if Japan newscasters make a similar pronouncement on December 7. I guess a Dresden style firebombing is somehow more humane than dropping a nuke?
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Personally, I unequivocally support Truman’s decision. Nonetheless I think any opportunity to reflect on the horrors associated with armed conflict is a good thing. Our values and past experiences should be a continuing focus for thoughtful reflection.
Our experiences in the subsequent 75 years confirm the importance of self reflection…so we can dismiss those who sing “Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran, or suggest we need to keep troops in Syria.
Here's a toast with one last pour, may it last forever and a minute more;
Good fortune seems to you have sung, to live and love way past long
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[quote quote=1790]Personally, I unequivocally support Truman’s decision. Nonetheless I think any opportunity to reflect on the horrors associated with armed conflict is a good thing. Our values and past experiences should be a continuing focus for thoughtful reflection. Our experiences in the subsequent 75 years confirm the importance of self reflection…so we can dismiss those who sing “Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran, or suggest we need to keep troops in Syria.[/quote]
Sure, reflect on it, but don’t let people second guess the decision so aggressively as to vilify the decision makers. That’s the game these days: Lodge criticism from the comfy position provided by those whom you critique.
A “dark day” which actually and directly led to the end of the war. That’s lame.
A “dark day” would have been the day the U.S. decided it lacked the guts to go for the jugular with nukes and just continued to bleed marines and army guys island hopping up to Japan. The Japanese were not going to surrender without a 2X4 to the head. It was never going to happen. Experiences in countless island campaigns proved that: Tarawa, Guadalcanal, Iwo Jima, etc.
Don’t forget that the Japanese leaders had days between the dropping of the Hiroshima bomb and the Nagasaki bomb…days in which they decided to endure nuclear bombing and continue the war effort. These guys weren’t going to stop easily, and even after they did stop, they only claimed to have stopped to save overall humanity.
In other words: Dear revisionists: Don’t try to piss on my leg and tell me it’s raining.
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Sic transit gloria mundi (so shut up and get back to work)-
The use of the term, “dark day” doesn’t mean that it couldn’t have been darker? You make this point eloquently yourself in your reply. And this is not a defense for the author.
The fact that our “best alternative” was to elevate the mass killing of civilians to an unprecedented scale, to initiate a 75 year cycle of weapons investment that at best proves to be unused and to necessarily sew mistrust between competitive political systems doesn’t make that “best alternative” an error of judgment. But it would have been a good day if there was an alternative.
Here's a toast with one last pour, may it last forever and a minute more;
Good fortune seems to you have sung, to live and love way past long
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[quote quote=1794]The use of the term, “dark day” doesn’t mean that it couldn’t have been darker? You make this point eloquently yourself in your reply. And this is not a defense for the author. The fact that our “best alternative” was to elevate the mass killing of civilians to an unprecedented scale, to initiate a 75 year cycle of weapons investment that at best proves to be unused and to necessarily sew mistrust between competitive political systems doesn’t make that “best alternative” an error of judgment. But it would have been a good day if there was an alternative.[/quote]
Elevating killing of civilians……Really? Like the allied bombing of Germany? Like dropping incendiary bombs on densely populate Japanese cities.
An opposing view…..https://thefederalist.com/2020/08/08/why-bombing-hiroshima-was-the-moral-thing-to-do/
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From a morality and War standpoint, there is a legitimate argument that the firebombings of Dresden, a gorgeous city with dubious military significance, was the more “ atrocious” act. There was a legitimate military reason for using the atomic bomb at Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The latter may be being somewhat questionable. But I think TC said it best – but for the bombings the loss of life both amongst the Japanese and of course the United States soldiers would have been significantly worse. Hell a lot of the Japanese leader ship did not want to end the war after Nagasaki. Any type of invasion of Japan would have been a bloodbath of epic proportion‘s.
Further, I just don’t see the same type of remembrances of Pearl Harbor on US TV. Because it just seems that these days all we can do is shit all over ourselves trying to show that almost everything we’ve done has been racist or some other horrific thing. It’s fucking disgusting
Imperial Japan was brutal. The rape of Nanking, the death march – and frankly the way they treated prisoners in general. The Japanese were amongst the most racist/ ethnocentric people on the fucking planet. Right up there with the Germans.
The problem is is we simply cannot distinguish anymore. It as if you say anything bad about Imperial Japan you’re attacking all of their people and all Japanese Americans. Which is absolutely absurd.
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“The Japanese were amongst the most racist/ ethnocentric people on the fucking planet. Right up there with the Germans.”
Been to Japan twice. Once for work, the second for the Olympics in Nagano (spur of the moment). During the business trip, me and my white compatriots were refused entry into several establishments. “No Gaijin!” was the emphatic cry. . . .
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[quote quote=1888]“The Japanese were amongst the most racist/ ethnocentric people on the fucking planet. Right up there with the Germans.” Been to Japan twice. Once for work, the second for the Olympics in Nagano (spur of the moment). During the business trip, me and my white compatriots were refused entry into several establishments. “No Gaijin!” was the emphatic cry. . . .[/quote]
I can hear it now: “It’s ok. It is just their culture to be racist. And, besides, we dropped the bomb on them so their hatred is justified.”
I’m very keen to understand and learn from history, and with that said, the Japanese had it coming. The Japanese warrior culture was based on a racial superiority thesis. It was no different than Nazi Germany’s.
While American “anti-racists” today worry about whether wiping their face with a brown paper napkin is a micro aggression, the real racists in China, Japan, Europe, and the Middle East laugh their asses off in private.
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Sic transit gloria mundi (so shut up and get back to work)-
While American “anti-racists” today worry about whether wiping their face with a brown paper napkin is a micro aggression, the real racists in China, Japan, Europe, and the Middle East laugh their asses off in private.
I can’t speak for the Euros or Middle Easterners. But according to the native Japanese and Chinese I know, those societies are relentlessly, completely racist. They’re more amazed that America works at all, given the polyglot ethnic stew here.
As far as dropping the H-Bomb and civilian casualties go…Japan had between 550k and 800k civilian deaths in WWII. China had between 7.4 million and 8.2 million, all inflicted by the Japanese. And while we’re on the subject, 75 million people died in WWII, 40 million were civilians. Of the civilian losses 85% were on the Allied side, chiefly because of war crimes committed in occupied territories by Japanese and German armies.
Another fact: 1% of all American prisoners in German camps died. 40% of American prisoners in Japanese camps died. That doesn’t include the 80,000 who died on the Bataan death march.
You know…at Cornell University, they have an amazing piece of scientific equipment, the tunnelling electron microscope. This microscope is so powerful, that by firing electrons, it can actually deliver images of the atom. It can detect the building blocks of the universe. And if I were to use that microscope right now, I still wouldn’t be able to locate my interest in the welfare of WWII Axis civilians…
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