Pay your fair share

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    • #4673
      LegendLegend
      Keymaster

      Ya tax evaders.

      ____________________________________________________________
      Sic transit gloria mundi (so shut up and get back to work)

    • #4674
      AvatarBeeg_Dawg
      Participant

      Pay your fair share.  Code for “We can’t stop giving away your money”

    • #4675
      LegendLegend
      Keymaster

      I never realized how preachy Joe is. He is like the dumb guy who has to tell you how smart he is. Pretty awful. Probably not a lot of fun at parties.

      ____________________________________________________________
      Sic transit gloria mundi (so shut up and get back to work)

    • #4685
      Avatarichiban
      Participant

      I read a piece on seekingalpha that asserted that if the Biden cap gains increase is passed dividend paying stocks will be tax advantaged compared to growth stocks like Netflix and maybe even bitcoin.   I’d like to hear what Buffett says about this next week?

    • #4688
      LegendLegend
      Keymaster

      All this starts to look like a wealth tax by another name. Capital gains taxes are essentially taxes on future income (the only reason a capital stock has value in the main), just like a wealth tax would be.

      the only thing it does is rejigger all the assumptions about tax avoidance, and we’ll be off worrying about something new, like why dividends don’t get quadruple taxed or something.

      Think about a dividend under Biden’s america. A company generates cash. That cash has to eventually be considered income during the life of the firm. That income is taxed at a fair share of 28 percent. That leaves 72 percent for reinvestment or dividend distribution. If it’s distributed (which is often the best thing for the economy ignoring tax policy, because it gets cash out there), 40 plus percent gets taxed (another fair share) add to that state taxes (fair share, dumbass!). So a shareholder who owns a share of stock that makes 100 in income gets to keep less than 45 of that amount after the dividend on just a federal level. It’s likely more like 40 percent after state taxes.

      all this does is provide incentives for companies to keep all the capital on their balance sheets and scale scale scale. It’s inefficient but then again the government doesn’t want efficiency…they want money. Oh, and to rail against billionaires who are billionaires thanks to government’s own policies.

      • This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by LegendLegend.

      ____________________________________________________________
      Sic transit gloria mundi (so shut up and get back to work)

    • #4691
      rjnwmillrjnwmill
      Participant

      all this does is provide incentives for companies to keep all the capital on their balance sheets and scale scale scale.”

      See the Apple balance sheet. So what do we do with the billions…we lobby; we concentrate power; we give our political stooges a raise; we contribute hundreds of millions to targeted get out the vote efforts to protect our puppets…millions to own the government…billions on our balance sheets?

      Good thing the USSC had more important things to focus on. Fair elections is so far down the list.

      Here's a toast with one last pour, may it last forever and a minute more;
      Good fortune seems to you have sung, to live and love way past long

    • #4693
      AvatarMick
      Participant

      we lobby; we concentrate power; we give our political stooges a raise; we contribute hundreds of millions to targeted get out the vote efforts to protect our puppets.

      Apropos of nothing, I worked with an extremely talented consultant who had been both a lobbyist and an attorney, and was using his MBA to further the interests of the Fortune 100 (all Ivy degrees).

      He told me that I would be astounded at the low intellect of a large number of the members of Congress, and essentially that we deserved what we received by electing our political leaders through a popularity contest — which did not end in a meritocratic result by any stretch.

      BTW Janet Yellen thinks the results of the borrow-and-spend strategy will be just ducky fine:

      Yellen insists U.S. will see ‘big returns’ by passing Biden spending proposals (msn.com)

      • This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by AvatarMick.
      • This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by AvatarMick.
      • #4695
        AvatarNeodymium60
        Participant

        And Kamala Harris, the least impressive person on the public stage I have ever seen, is about to be making decisions affecting my life.  Government service attracts the worse kind of people.

        I can’t verify this but a CPA told me that he did tax returns this last month for several clients who 100k to 200k in PPP money on the COVID program last year.  Said the loans have all been forgiven.  R and D’s gave the full wish list.

         

        • #4696
          LegendLegend
          Keymaster

          [quote quote=4695]And Kamala Harris, the least impressive person on the public stage I have ever seen, is about to be making decisions affecting my life. Government service attracts the worse kind of people. I can’t verify this but a CPA told me that he did tax returns this last month for several clients who 100k to 200k in PPP money on the COVID program last year. Said the loans have all been forgiven. R and D’s gave the full wish list.[/quote]

          Kamala would be a really annoying high school principal or VP of HR if she hadn’t hooked onto the right Dem machine coattails.  That she is a heartbeat away from leading the country is truly one of the more terrifying examples of bureaucratic upward failure in the history of mankind.

          As for the PPP, as far as I’m concerned worrying about PPP dollars being forgiven fails on two points.  First, it’s player hating.  The law as set up was for forgivable loans that went to maintaining payrolls.  Like it or not, but the payrolls stayed.  Yes, the tax free forgiveness can be interpreted as a double dip, but it was what was promised… The government directly funded the payroll and some other items via very aggressive lending.  It turned into a free money program, but probably should have been a free income program (meaning taxable as marginal income).  Unfortunately it wasn’t framed that way.

          Full disclosure:  This hits close to home.  Though my company did not take the second round ppp, we did take the first, and I can tell you the mixed messages were a tax planning nightmare (AKA a “high class problem”) Also full disclosure:  I pay waaaay more in taxes than the PPP paid to us, so it wasn’t exactly a handout…more like a small tax refund.  My hunch is that was the case for most people.

          ____________________________________________________________
          Sic transit gloria mundi (so shut up and get back to work)

          • #4699
            AvatarNeodymium60
            Participant

            Doing a little deeper look at PPP the loans were meant to be forgiven if the forgiveness process were properly documented which turned out to be a joke.  Many recipients simply got an email saying their loan was forgiven.  No back up required.  Many small businesses got up to 2 million.  No proof of need.  All forgiven.  The loans remain on the books with the lending banks.

            Anyone can look at PPP loans in their zip code and quickly see that many were lucrative medical and dental practices, non profits, hair solons, prep schools and businesses some of which never missed a beat and kept on working throughout.  All you had to do was apply.  Inflationary helicopter money.

            Lets not forget that the FED mortgage forgiveness program has a roll up to an interest free rider until the sale of the home.  And the Student Loan Forgiveness Program.

            We are in a very deep hole.

             

            • This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by AvatarNeodymium60.
    • #4698
      AvatarMick
      Participant

      We declined both the first and second round of the PPP.  Instead, we canned about 23% of our overall staff, took 15% haircuts, and zeroed out all discretionary and semi-discretionary budgets starting last April.  Our partners made a sxxt ton of money.

      This year, at April month end, we were up over 32% in gross revenue comparing April 21 to April 20, and we are up about 24% year over year in the first four months.

      Crazy.

    • #4702
      LegendLegend
      Keymaster

      [quote quote=4699]Doing a little deeper look at PPP the loans were meant to be forgiven if the forgiveness process were properly documented which turned out to be a joke. Many recipients simply got an email saying their loan was forgiven. No back up required. Many small businesses got up to 2 million. No proof of need. All forgiven. The loans remain on the books with the lending banks. Anyone can look at PPP loans in their zip code and quickly see that many were lucrative medical and dental practices, non profits, hair solons, prep schools and businesses some of which never missed a beat and kept on working throughout. All you had to do was apply. Inflationary helicopter money. Lets not forget that the FED mortgage forgiveness program has a roll up to an interest free rider until the sale of the home. And the Student Loan Forgiveness Program. We are in a very deep hole.[/quote]

      I think Mick lays out the other side of not participating.  They laid off a bunch of staff and made a killing. Had they left staff in place and taken PPP, probably would have still made a killing, but without contributing to unemployment.

      My hunch is that the PPP “helped” keep companies from panic downsizing to some degree.  However, it really became a joke once it became clear where the scrutiny level would be.  I, for one, think that the disclosure of ppp loan amounts was a bit of a double-cross, because it was a glimpse into payroll dynamics of a given company.  While I understand the need for openness and transparency, such disclosure was not likely for smaller businesses at the start of the program.

      The PPP did what it was supposed to do but it was a nuclear weapon…lots of collateral impact that likely enriched some people.  The good news is that it likely only enriched actual taxpayers, so for those of us who view taxation as theft, it was only a return of “stolen property.”  😎

       

      The best evidence that people have moral and legal restraint is that the PPP dollars were never all used.

       

      ____________________________________________________________
      Sic transit gloria mundi (so shut up and get back to work)

    • #4708
      AvatarBeeg_Dawg
      Participant

      Mrs Dawg would rant about paying taxes on the PPP loan if it were forgiven.

      One evening she started again, when I said, “Gee, Hon, I suppose if you won the lottery you wouldn’t take the money because you would have to pay tax on it.”

      Not a word since then.  Literally, not a word. 🙂

       

       

    • #4709
      rjnwmillrjnwmill
      Participant

      Not a word since then.  Literally, not a word. 🙂”

      I sincerely hope you aren’t on the couch with a pillow my friend.

      Here's a toast with one last pour, may it last forever and a minute more;
      Good fortune seems to you have sung, to live and love way past long

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