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Genuine RealistParticipantHas to be. Sullivan should let this one go. You can’t be both judge and prosecutor.
I wouldn't give you two cents for all your fancy rules if, behind them, they didn't have a little bit of plain, ordinary, everyday kindness - yeah, and a little looking out for the other fella, too.
Genuine RealistParticipantThere are some videos that show some fairly ugly behavior by Baca before the major fracas broke out. I can only give you a link to a Twitter account that shows multiple videos of Baca. One assault stops just short of being a felony, on a rather small woman, and is cowardly and completely inexcusable. You’ll have to scroll down to find it. A protest marshall is telling people to stay back, Baca becomes impatient, and throws her to the ground very roughly. Don’t go to bat for this guy – both cowardly and intemperate.
That said, he probably does have a self-defense right to the mob action.
So charge him with the assaults against the women, charge the mob leaders with the ssaults against him, charge him with ADW against them, and give the whole thing to the jury. That’s what trials are for.
I wouldn't give you two cents for all your fancy rules if, behind them, they didn't have a little bit of plain, ordinary, everyday kindness - yeah, and a little looking out for the other fella, too.
Genuine RealistParticipantI don’t like to pose as some all-American expert on this stuff. I’m not a cop and I have been 14 years out of the business now, leaving it in 2007. Most of what I learned was on the other side of the street, as a PD. I was a high tech specialist as a prosecutor, and the guys I worked with, rather mellow 40ish fellows who had gravitated up from the ranks, and were no happier about cowboy types than the public.
That said, the big mistake the arresting cops made in my second-hand judgment, was not arresting Brooks immediately. They had obvious PC for a DUI arrest; they knew within ten seconds he was going to be arrested. You don’t need a breathalyzer for the arrest 0r trial, i. e., lots of cases are presented on the basis of a refusal.
So you politely tell him so, cuff him (telling him it’s for his protection as well as theirs, which is the truth), and THEN you discuss the matter. The arrest is non-negotiable, so you don’t stall on it. The way they handled it, Brooks may have thought he was talking his way out of it, then was understandably frustrated when – from his point of view – it didn’t work out that way.
As for the actual incident, I don’t know enough. You don’t need a threat of death to respond with lethal force – just the possibility of grievous bodily harm. A taser probably qualifies. The rest turns on detailed facts and circumstances I don’t know. On balance, I think the cop’s chances are pretty good at trial, regardless of the racial composition of the jury.
I wouldn't give you two cents for all your fancy rules if, behind them, they didn't have a little bit of plain, ordinary, everyday kindness - yeah, and a little looking out for the other fella, too.
Genuine RealistParticipantThe sooner Trump departs the national stage, the better. He draws lightning for his own narcissistic purposes.
I wouldn't give you two cents for all your fancy rules if, behind them, they didn't have a little bit of plain, ordinary, everyday kindness - yeah, and a little looking out for the other fella, too.
Genuine RealistParticipantReminiscent of the communes set up temporarily in the late 60’s and 70’s, in the midst of stormy protests.
I absolutely would NOT intervene with main political force, and create some ridiculous Camelot legend. Let it collapse under its own weight of anarchy,
I wouldn't give you two cents for all your fancy rules if, behind them, they didn't have a little bit of plain, ordinary, everyday kindness - yeah, and a little looking out for the other fella, too.
Genuine RealistParticipantActually, the girl does and holds them off.
Their faces are in full view. Oops.
I wouldn't give you two cents for all your fancy rules if, behind them, they didn't have a little bit of plain, ordinary, everyday kindness - yeah, and a little looking out for the other fella, too.
Genuine RealistParticipantBold italics link
I wouldn't give you two cents for all your fancy rules if, behind them, they didn't have a little bit of plain, ordinary, everyday kindness - yeah, and a little looking out for the other fella, too.
Genuine RealistParticipantHmm. Formatting bar did not appear in first reply.
I wouldn't give you two cents for all your fancy rules if, behind them, they didn't have a little bit of plain, ordinary, everyday kindness - yeah, and a little looking out for the other fella, too.
Genuine RealistParticipantThere is no content to this post. I am simply trying out formatting options – <i>italics, </i><b>bold</b>, and so on.
Apparently, you just copy and paste links.
https://smile.amazon.com/Joseph-Wurtenbaugh/e/B002BLNDCI/ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_1?qid=1537743328&sr=8-1
Can you post an image? Apparently.
I wouldn't give you two cents for all your fancy rules if, behind them, they didn't have a little bit of plain, ordinary, everyday kindness - yeah, and a little looking out for the other fella, too.
Genuine RealistParticipant?
What I don’t like is all the Freddy in-jokes.
I wouldn't give you two cents for all your fancy rules if, behind them, they didn't have a little bit of plain, ordinary, everyday kindness - yeah, and a little looking out for the other fella, too.
Genuine RealistParticipantActually, you can thank the Republican majority in the Senate.
Which Trump’s obnoxious, divisive style is endangering.
I wouldn't give you two cents for all your fancy rules if, behind them, they didn't have a little bit of plain, ordinary, everyday kindness - yeah, and a little looking out for the other fella, too.
Genuine RealistParticipantI meant to link this as well.
I wouldn't give you two cents for all your fancy rules if, behind them, they didn't have a little bit of plain, ordinary, everyday kindness - yeah, and a little looking out for the other fella, too.
Genuine RealistParticipantI couldn’t disagree more. Draconian enforcement of immigration laws has always been the biggest weak point of Trump’s policies. It has produced some cases among long settled immigrants, with families, that make no sense at all from any realistic human standpoint,
But the kids are worse. The issue isn’t going to go away, Trump doubling down on it just looks awful, and you can expect one wrenchin video after another. My bet is that his approval ratings are going to drop like a stone, despite the strong economy, and the Blue tsunami comes back on the table. It is just an incredibly dumb thing to do.
This article from Commentary – reliably conservative, but in its own fashion – suggests the devastation Trump is doing to his own party. He could not have called it worse.
I wouldn't give you two cents for all your fancy rules if, behind them, they didn't have a little bit of plain, ordinary, everyday kindness - yeah, and a little looking out for the other fella, too.
Genuine RealistParticipantTrump’s nativism has always been his weak spot, and apparently he believes in it – hopeless. He COULD have gotten himself out of this mess by disavowing the policy and pointing out that it had its origins with Democratic legislation and began in the Obama Administration.
But he didn’t. He doubled down on it, like he always does. This time, I think, he’s really going to pay – because there is finally something he has actually done.
I wouldn't give you two cents for all your fancy rules if, behind them, they didn't have a little bit of plain, ordinary, everyday kindness - yeah, and a little looking out for the other fella, too.
Genuine RealistParticipantdpbrewster said… (original post)
I call BS. You are correct as to the WHY, and I don’t disagree. But there was a good deal of actual racist dialogue, as opposed to merely oppositional, from the right. Quite frankly, speaking of the world as it is, I find it amusing that you ignore it or blithely sweep it away. And Trump continues to use such dialogue to his advantage. There is a very ugly undercurrent still at play in US society. And we ignore it at our peril.
Call what you like, The fact is that Barack Obama went from being an obscure Illinois senator in 2002 to becoming President in six (!) years, beating the ordained candidate of the hero of the Democratic Party and winning one of the most decisive elections in recent US history. In his entire career, he never lost an election or even suffered a career disappointment. Some victim of racism.
Also, since 2010, the rejection of Democratic attitudes and values has been one of the most striking phenomena in US political history. The Republicans now hold majorities in both Houses, control the Presidency, the Supreme Court, and 2/3rds of the governorships. That wave of rejection obviously has nothing to do with Obama’s race. In fact, he was the only winner in the pack, in 2012, against a relatively strong Republican candidate. If he suffered from bigotry, you’d expect him to fail worse than the other Democratic candidates, with all that baggage and race besides. But he didn’t. He outpaced them.
He lost popularity in 2009-10 for a simple reason. Having run on a platform of ‘hope and change’, he proved once in office to be one of the great establishment Presidents of our time – first embracing the financial establishment, then the Democratic establishment, in lending his popularity to the enactment of a medical coverage overall that was NOT one of the issues of 2008, and in a template that had been decisively rejected for decades. Worse, the sausage making was done in public. The Right exploded, and he was stuck with the Tea Party. That was a principled opposition, not racial. He didn’t deliver ‘hope and change’ – he didn’t even try.
I’m sure race mattered to a fraction of the voters, but the number of African-American voters who went his way out of racial loyalty had to be many times that. (I don’t blame them for that – I vividly remember the way Catholics supported Kennedy in 1960.) There is also that fraction of other voters who voted for him on a Mafic Negro basis – I know more than one. Race to the extent it mattered helped Barack Obama far more than it hurt.
The reactionary obsession with race and gender is killing the Democratic Party, as well as its snarky attitude toward American power. The one great issue of our time is the wealth divide. Rather than recognize that persons on the wrong side of it, whatever their race, have far more in common than not, they persist with their seating chart. Trump is both the best and worst thing that has happened to them. He is so obnoxious that they might pick up protest votes. But rather than acknowledge how much has gone wrong with the Party message, they obssess on Trump and double down on snark. Believing that race had any significant role in opposition to Obama is a symptom of that.
I wouldn't give you two cents for all your fancy rules if, behind them, they didn't have a little bit of plain, ordinary, everyday kindness - yeah, and a little looking out for the other fella, too.
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