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He’s joined the Aaron Burr Club.
Other criminal theories about Trump are farcical. But this is beyond the pale.
You bring him to trial in the near future. To do otherwise is to sanction this sort of behavior.
Treason.
I wouldn't give you two cents for all your fancy rules if, behind them, they didn't have a little bit of plain, ordinary, everyday kindness - yeah, and a little looking out for the other fella, too.
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[quote quote=4076]He’s joined the Aaron Burr Club. Other criminal theories about Trump are farcical. But this is beyond the pale. You bring him to trial in the near future. To do otherwise is to sanction this sort of behavior. Treason.[/quote]
I expected him to go to trial for something after he leaves office. Might as well be treason. Being a Putin puppet didn’t work. Impeachment was too soft. And let Kamala pardon him. I always thought that was the plan. I like your drama by the way but there is one problem with your plan. Trump might love it and make everyone look like a fool. Better to let sleeping dogs lie.
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Off with his head! What a pathetic p.o.s. you truly are. I expected no less. You are a fine successor to Joe McCarthy and the Salem witch trial prosecutors. Your rancor is predictable and humorous. About as smart as Joe Biden yesterday showing his true colors as a senile Fascist. F off G.R., you always were a self important condescending BEOTCH. I’m not surprised you and Gator breath can’t find an Internet home and keep coming here to drop your internet enemas. 73M of us hope you do try to run this BS on Trump… You will truly rue the day. It’s no surprise what a sorry bitter c*nt you are, but I’m glad you showed your true colors once again.
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This reply was modified 5 years, 3 months ago by
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This reply was modified 5 years, 3 months ago by .
“I remember that one fateful day when Coach took me aside. I knew what was coming. "You don't have to tell me," I said. "I'm off the team, aren't I?" "Well," said Coach, "you never were really ON the team. You made that uniform you're wearing out of rags and towels, and your helmet is a toy space helmet. You show up at practice and then either steal the ball and make us chase you to get it back, or you try to tackle people at inappropriate times." It was all true what he was saying. And yet, I
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This reply was modified 5 years, 3 months ago by
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The other prosecutorial theories were farcical.
But this is the Real Deal. I am sure you see the difference.
You HAVE to prosecute. Not to do so is to accept the conduct as tolerable – and it isn’t.
I wouldn't give you two cents for all your fancy rules if, behind them, they didn't have a little bit of plain, ordinary, everyday kindness - yeah, and a little looking out for the other fella, too.
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[quote quote=4082]But this is the Real Deal. You HAVE to prosecute. Not to do so is to accept the conduct as tolerable – and it isn’t.[/quote]
What is your theory here? I’m lost. Help me understand the difference between the last week and this summer…and the identity politics that have been at the core of our politics since the summer of 1965…except in 1965 3,400 rioters were arrested? Now we don’t arrest idiots who destroy property and impose violence and civil disobedience on their neighbors.
Here's a toast with one last pour, may it last forever and a minute more;
Good fortune seems to you have sung, to live and love way past long -
Oh, you understand fully.
The usual ‘tu quoque’ response. Poor Johnny One-Note.
I wouldn't give you two cents for all your fancy rules if, behind them, they didn't have a little bit of plain, ordinary, everyday kindness - yeah, and a little looking out for the other fella, too.
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You think that will play with your jury? Good luck. Intellectual narcissism is generally seen for what it is.
Ps: I heard someone opine that America has been engaged in a “cold civil war” for at least 6-10 years. I think they were right in part and that the pent up rage led to a big Trump victory. The final response to undo the 2016 election has been ANTIFA burning cities and claiming autonomous zones. Now with the election fraud allegations we see another reaction from the hard right. Personally I think our current Union & Confederate “generals” have been waging war for far more than 10 years. No shortage of volunteers for the respective armies either. Interesting to note, the paucity of legislative accomplishments during this “war”. Per capita U.S. debt has increased from $820 in 1990 to $69,000 in 2019. To me, that’s THE most remarkable accomplishment by the “generals”…and now they’re going to get serious about bail outs?
Here's a toast with one last pour, may it last forever and a minute more;
Good fortune seems to you have sung, to live and love way past long
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I’ve been tied up all day, and just turned on the news. Did Trump lead a raid on the Capitol? Did he encourage his supporters to attack the halls of Congress? Seriously, even CNN hasn’t gone that far. . . .
Indeed, it is despicable storming Congress, and those that did should be prosecuted. Period.
After the last four years of farces and violent protests, it’s very tempting to enter into whataboutism, but not today.
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You always defend an incitement to riot (or solicitation to murder, etc.) case on the basis that the speech was misunderstood, not intended to incite, and so on. That would be Trump’s defense and maybe it would succeed.
But my prima facie case is built on two bases – first, there was language in Trump’s speech that suggested that the only response to the ‘threat’ was strength. This is still ambiguous, but in context it was fairly aggressive.
The other basis is the continued reiteration of the claim that the election was ‘stolen’, despite its complete untruth. Unlike the two Mortimer Snerds – dumb Trump stooges – that pollute the site with posts, I actually did read the pleadings and declarations of the first dozen or so lawsuits filed by Trump and the GOP. This was an unusual election, what with covid and the partisanship. It had to be tested by litigation – and it was. The showings even the first suits were uniformly ludicrously inadequate – quintessentially lame. They were rejected by every court, and rightfully so. I expected Trump would accept the fact that the election, albeit unusual, was a fair one. Not so. He has continued to file suits, wilder and wilder, and his claims about election steal have become more, not less, strident. I think a jury might take very seriously the theory that these wild lies are deliberately intended to undercut a fair election, and provide the predicate for a forcible seizure of power, albeit temporary.
FWIW, American elections are conducted by amateurs. What happens is that tens of thousands of precinct workers are recruited or volunteer. They’re ordinary citizens who staff the polls and are primarily interested in tallying the votes correctly. They don’t just sit there while some guy in a black mask stuffs votes into the box. Of course, when you have tens of millions of votes cast, you have some human error. But we are talking about the dozenses or hundreds, not the colossal effort in fraud that Trump implies.
The number of votes by mail, which is certain to increase, is exploited by Trump deliberately to fuel the faux outrage. These aren’t dumps. What happens is that the votes are not opened and counted until Election Day. It takes a long time to do that. That’s why you’ll see a candidate such as John James leading as 80 or 90 percent of the PRECINCTS report. But not all precincts are created equal. The ones that report early don’t have that much overhang. The ones that have a heavy number of absentee or votes by mail are counting the whole time, but it takes longer. This enables Trump to talk about a voting ‘dump’, which is nothing more than the ordinary delay of counting a lot of mail voters.
(D0 any of you who speculate on fraud ever consider the sheer mechanics of it? The number of man hours it would take, the personnel . . . even the number of ballots? The actual operation of getting the ballots into the box? We are talking about hundreds of hours, whole office buildings, etc. The notion is farcical. In any case, in the 60 or so suits Trump has filed, he hasn’t shown any systematic fraud at all. As noted, the showings are pathetically inadequate.)
So, yeah, I have a case. I may lose it, but I’ve lost cases before. That’s secondary.What is essential is not to allow this to become part of the American political tradition. The ludicrous examples of Portland and Seattle, the notions that the First Amendment allows you to block freeways as a ‘protest’ is bad enough. A President of the United States urging his followers to disrupt the proceedings of the Electoral College is infinitely worse.
I try him for treason. I invoke Aaron Burr. I like my chances.
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This reply was modified 5 years, 3 months ago by
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This reply was modified 5 years, 3 months ago by .
I wouldn't give you two cents for all your fancy rules if, behind them, they didn't have a little bit of plain, ordinary, everyday kindness - yeah, and a little looking out for the other fella, too.
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No shortage of fodder here…
“The other basis is the continued reiteration of the claim that the election was ‘stolen’, despite its complete untruth.”
I’ll be damned, the blind pig found an acorn! The election wasn’t stolen, it was lost. Democrats cleverly used the virus to act unconstitutionally and goose their voter participation. Changing the election rules without acting through State Legislatures ain’t permissible as I understand it. Trump talked a lot about the risks with vote by mail, but he failed to act in advance as the infrastructure/rules were modified to produce the highest voter participation rate in 120 years. {66.3% in 2020 compared to 1900 when 73.7% participated in Taft’s win over Bryan.}. Trump boxed himself in. His failure to act in advance left the courts no escape hatch. If he had acted timely and asserted his constitutionality claims in advance, I suspect he enjoys success in the courts. Declaring the rules changes to be impermissible while granting legislatures an opportunity to make what ever changes they wish is no big deal. Asking courts to void ballots from voters who acted in accord with the rules as they understand them is unlikely. Trump’s political strategists failed dismally. That ain’t “stolen”.
“I expected Trump would accept the fact that the election, albeit unusual, was a fair one…these wild lies are deliberately intended to undercut a fair election.”
You miss the point entirely with your expectations. Unconstitutional has nothing to do with fair or unfair.
“FWIW, American elections are conducted by amateurs.”
Simply naive. Here’s a background piece on Biden’s legal team. You think the Perkins Coie firm is a bunch of “amateurs”? Try again. These “amateurs” are the preeminent legal firm for democratic politics. {The same firm that worked with the Clinton Campaign on the dossier if I recall correctly. They play hardball.} Tell me, you think your postman runs the Post Office?
“The number of votes by mail, which is certain to increase, is exploited by Trump deliberately to fuel the faux outrage.”
State the obvious about the increase in the vote by mail tallies without addressing whether the rules changes that fomented the increase were appropriate/constitutional. You’re off in the woods.
“D0 any of you who speculate on fraud ever consider the sheer mechanics of it? The number of man hours it would take, the personnel . . . even the number of ballots? The actual operation of getting the ballots into the box? We are talking about hundreds of hours, whole office buildings, etc. The notion is farcical.”
Fraud? No constitutionality. That aside, this reminds me of your assurances that there was no coordinated effort to undermine the Trump presidency. The inspector general put the lie to that position.
And if you’d prefer to be cast in the roll of Charlie McCarthy, so be it. But as one dummy to another, Charley, I think it’s a distinction without a difference.
Here's a toast with one last pour, may it last forever and a minute more;
Good fortune seems to you have sung, to live and love way past long
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This reply was modified 5 years, 3 months ago by
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Not that it matters, I believe I posted well before the November election, that I had lost faith in our election process. Seemingly, a large part of the Republican side, and a surprisingly big chunk of the Dems agree.
We are a banana republic, and it’s sickening. Will
Harris, I mean Biden, be able to restore the faith. Not a chance.-
No believer like a True Believer.
I mentioned reading the actual declarations. They were patheticlly, ludicrously inadequate. 59 or 62 or whatever lawsuits, and nothing. Rejected by courts of every political leaning, Barr – Trump’s AG – at the Justice Department, and all for the same reason. There ain’t no fraud.
Not that that has stopped Trump.
Or the True Believers.
P.S. Don’t believe elections are conducted by volunteers? Try it out. Contact your local registrar. You can go down to some precinct and check people in, or open mail in ballots. The grunt work is done by ordinary people who see it as a civic duty.
I wouldn't give you two cents for all your fancy rules if, behind them, they didn't have a little bit of plain, ordinary, everyday kindness - yeah, and a little looking out for the other fella, too.
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Please. Covid made for an unusual election, but it came off stunningly.
The only irregularity is the utter irresponsibility of one Donald Trump.
He’s a one man banana republic.
I wouldn't give you two cents for all your fancy rules if, behind them, they didn't have a little bit of plain, ordinary, everyday kindness - yeah, and a little looking out for the other fella, too.
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[quote quote=4101]Please. Covid made for an unusual election, but it came off stunningly. The only irregularity is the utter irresponsibility of one Donald Trump. He’s a one man banana republic.[/quote]
You are stunningly out of touch. For years, the Dems have been preaching “by any means possible”. They got their wish, but at what cost? Our trust in Government has been awful. Now it’s non existent, and they’ve taken the electoral process with them.
A “true believer”? Blow it out your ass, GR. I’ve never been a fan of the guy, and I’m long on the record on that. But I completely support America first. Something you clearly don’t.
You must be doing handsprings as China cracks down on freedom in Hong Kong and Jack Ma has been missing for months. I’m sure Hunter will be on top of those in no time.
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You’re not the one I described as True Believer.
However, you don’t get it. What happened today was an assault on the basic institution of the Constitution. It was truly shocking. There is also the fact that TWO MONTHS of frenzied litigation, investigation, DOJ inquiries, has produced absolutely nothing. THERE IS NO FRAUD. There is only Trump and his endless blathering.
You think the people who are appalled by Trump condone the nonsense in Portland? Or Hong Kong? Of course not. I’ve been writing about that (Portland and Seattle) for months.
But what people like me do realize is that this has become truly dangerous precedent. Trump, unwilling to leave office, has concocted a conspiracy and a rationale, and used the office to sell it, despite the utter absence of evidence. And he conned an army of suckers into a major violation of law and decorum to support it. Dear God.
I wonder how the people who oppose facial recognition software feel now – because I’d be using it to identify everyone who broke into the capitol to prosecute.
And I’m thinking major prison term for Trump. You don’t set rioters lose on the US Senate and walk away from it. He is a traitor, and he should be punished accordingly.
I wouldn't give you two cents for all your fancy rules if, behind them, they didn't have a little bit of plain, ordinary, everyday kindness - yeah, and a little looking out for the other fella, too.
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Sedition, insurrection and treason?
A simple question that I’ve been pondering for the last few hours:
As egregious as the assault on the Capitol was, and the guilty should indeed be punished, if it were a true insurrection and an attempt at a coup, would the infiltrators have been content to take selfies on the dais, in Pelosi’s office, etc.?
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“ US elections are run by a bunch of amateurs “.
the world’s greatest power puts volunteers in charge of its elections. Think about how scary this is. We owe it to ourselves and to the rest of the world to professionalize the process. Otherwise our democracy is in great peril. We saw what people are capable of when they feel disenfranchised. Our fifty states, swing states first, need to fix this. And soon. Any attempt to dissuade a fix is cold an$ disingenuous and will lead to grave consequences. We are on the verge.
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[quote quote=4140]if it were a true insurrection and an attempt at a coup, would the infiltrators have been content to take selfies on the dais, in Pelosi’s office, etc.?[/quote]
I think you’re downplaying what happened. Several people died, including a cop who was bludgeoned to death. Many of these folks framed it as their last chance to “stop the steal” of a lawful democratic election. A mob forced their way into the building. They ransacked offices. They constructed a noose outside the Capitol building. Crowds were chanting for Mike Pence to be hanged and for Pelosi to be killed, among other outrageous and seditious things.
They were literally trying to force their way into the chamber at the moment the votes of a national election were being counted. Many hoped their show of force would somehow persuade Republicans or Pence to reject votes (not that he could). Who knows what they would have done if they had somehow caught up with Pence or Pelosi and others. I’m glad we didn’t have to find out.
Here’s some of the violence:
NO MALARKEY
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A couple of thoughts.
- First and foremost, Trump was and is dead wrong with respect to referring to the 2020 Presidential election as a stolen election, insofar as a “stolen election” is classically understood. The Democrats didn’t steal it. He lost it. And he lost it by repeatedly shooting himself in the foot in virtual every form of communications in every format in every conversation with the media, with opponents, with supporters and with everyone who could be considered “Elite.”
- That said, the Democrats very successfully gamed the system, as they’ve been trying to do for decades, as have the Republicans. The Democrats are just better and more successful at it.
- Trump has NOT done permanent damage to the democracy or the voting system any more than Hillary Clinton did permanent damage when she repeatedly claimed that Trump was an illegitimate president “and he knows it.” Trump convinced a few thousand idiots to go along with his hallucinations. He and they deserve to be jailed and Trump’s legal woes will continue at the state and Federal level.
- BTW, it still pales in comparison to the summer of violence sponsored by the Democrats and all of their related entities, Big Media, Progressives and the like. Very, very few Dems criticized it, and quite a few lefties publicly approved (like Cuomo “Where does it say protest has to be peaceful?” It’s in the First Amendment, dumbass, where it says “the right of the people peaceably to assemble”
- At the same time, the perfidy committed by the Democrats surrounding the 2016 election led to all of this, and they will never, ever be called to account for their chicanery. Ever.
- Most importantly, 74 million people held their nose and voted from Trump. HARRIS/biden won by the skin of their teeth, but they’re acting as if they have a mandate. Some of the Dem media (but I repeat myself) have noticed that HARRIS/biden didn’t win 155 million to zero, and they’ve paid lip service to it, but there are an awful lot of people who are disenfranchised in this country.
- And one last little thing to think about. Trump would have been re-elected if any of the three had happened (a) No once-in-a-century pandemic (b) anyone other than Biden were running against him — remember, in the New Hampshire Democratic primary, Kamala Harris got 128 votes and Trump got 1,217 as a write in and (c) Trump wasn’t such a flaming a-hole in public.
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Today from Pelosi:
https://mobile.twitter.com/alexsalvinews/status/1348415479098953730
Joe reminds me so of General Al Haig…”I am in control here at the White House.”
Unity Joe, “I am the Democratic Party”, Joe? He’s lost control before he’s been inaugurated. Senile old fool. And Pelosi, has less control of the house than Joe has of the party. She’s been run over by lunatics and has subordinated the agenda of the new administration to page six. “Joe…Joe who?”
They think this allows them to undo the appointment of a special counsel for the Hunter investigation? With a narrative about the final acts of a mad man? Good luck with that bs when there is a money trail.
All with a six vote majority in the house? A 50 vote “majority” in the senate? That’s a bunch of Charley McCarthys there.
Here's a toast with one last pour, may it last forever and a minute more;
Good fortune seems to you have sung, to live and love way past long
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To be accurate, the attack was indeed worse than I had originally seen, and the assaults on the police despicable.
Interesting the head of the Capitol Police asked for help, ie for the National Guard to be deployed, but was denied on multiple occasions. The Sergeant of Arms at the House said no. The Sergeant of Arms at the Senate said ask quietly. The Mayor of DC wanted to keep a light police presence.
Constitutional Crisis? Perhaps that’s hyperbole, but clear f*** ups by many, including Trump. Oddly reminiscent of Benghazi, but of course on own own soil and by our own citizens.
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“To be accurate, the attack was indeed worse than I had originally seen, and the assaults on the police despicable.”
I agree with your conclusion. There are no winners here. Trump being associated with such behavior undercuts his core messages…hard work, respect for law enforcement, productive participation in the society and the economy and a government focused on the well being of the individual, the family and the community.
For the democrats, they are revealed as the worst form of NIMBYs. Encourage lawlessness, property destruction and violence to further a political narrative. Bail perps out of jail to insure the civil unrest is continuing. Members of Congress inviting/encouraging the crap in speeches from the capital; pretending they are a natural and necessary consequence of the policies of the political opposition…until it gets close to their persons and property. Then it’s sedition. Their solution, give us power to target our opponents in the political theatre. A totally useless dissembling.
But at least we have a titular head that’s a senile old fool. We get the government we deserve. And to our leaders, a simple question, is this more or less offensive than the Boston tea party?
Here's a toast with one last pour, may it last forever and a minute more;
Good fortune seems to you have sung, to live and love way past long
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CC, the DC police and mayor got exactly what they asked for. Both are now complaining they didn’t get support they requested when help didn’t arrive for 4 hours.
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[quote quote=4151]A couple of thoughts.
And one last little thing to think about. Trump would have been re-elected if any of the three had happened (a) No once-in-a-century pandemic (b) anyone other than Biden were running against him — remember, in the New Hampshire Democratic primary, Kamala Harris got 128 votes and Trump got 1,217 as a write in and (c) Trump wasn’t such a flaming a-hole in public.
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I don’t believe the pandemic itself did much damage. Trump taking center stage trying to be the focal point of every press conference did more damage than COVID.
IMO, his opponent didn’t make a difference in the outcome. Mr. Ed could have garnered north of 45% of the vote as long as his last name wasn’t Trump.
Your third point is spot on. Trump did this to himself, just like Hillary shooting herself in the foot in 2016. Trump taking every slight to a DefCon 5 response grew tiring. Of course, Dems made it personal. Trump didn’t have to be likable, just not openly combative. Doesn’t seems that hard, but obviously that’s not in his DNA.
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