Current Defcon Level today – 3

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    • #5816
      AvatarNeodymium60
      Participant

      Well, that was fast.    I assume that’s about it unless someone at the highest levels either side makes a real boneheaded mistake.  Happened to Kennedy in Cuban Missile crisis when a fighter pilot went rogue.

      There’s a lot of good reading on this and how effective coordination between military and civilian leadership should work to diffuse the many crisiss that we have been through.  We have been fortunate to have had good leadership in the past.

      https://www.defconlevel.com

    • #5817
      rjnwmillrjnwmill
      Participant

      Fox is reporting that Ukrainian citizens are asking a couple simple questions; If you saw this coming for 60-90 days, why didn’t you do anything until after the fact?  Why sanctions as opposed to weapons?

      Here's a toast with one last pour, may it last forever and a minute more;
      Good fortune seems to you have sung, to live and love way past long

      • #5818
        cardcrimsoncardcrimson
        Participant

        [quote quote=5817]Fox is reporting that Ukrainian citizens are asking a couple simple questions; If you saw this coming for 60-90 days, why didn’t you do anything until after the fact? Why sanctions as opposed to weapons?[/quote]

        Two very fair questions.

        The West has abandoned Ukraine. Shameful.

        • #5820
          rjnwmillrjnwmill
          Participant

          I didn’t realize until today that Ukraine had a force in Afghanistan in support of our initiative.

          Here's a toast with one last pour, may it last forever and a minute more;
          Good fortune seems to you have sung, to live and love way past long

        • #5823
          BeyondThunderdomeBeyondThunderdome
          Participant

          You really think the west isn’t doing anything? You’re reading different news than I am. Even Germany is now providing weapons.

          regardless, it’s a risky thing sending arms, medical supplies, logistics, intelligence to fight your neighbor who has nuclear bombs.

          so I don’t blame anyone for taking a cautious approach. But the west seems to be all in on support.
          https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-coordinate-arms-shipments-ukraine/

          NO MALARKEY

        • #5840
          Avatarrogpodge
          Participant

          Let’s be honest.  The sanctions announced by the US were weak and terrible.

          https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/bidens-russia-sanctions-may-let-moscow-profit-from-oil-gas/ar-AAUneT7

          It was not until the Germans decided to impose the SWIFT sanctions and to cut off Russian access to its reserves and the monetary system that there were any real sanctions with teeth.  Now the US wants to jump on the bandwagon.

    • #5824
      cardcrimsoncardcrimson
      Participant

      [quote quote=5823]You really think the west isn’t doing anything? You’re reading different news than I am. Even Germany is now providing weapons. regardless, it’s a risky thing sending arms, medical supplies, logistics, intelligence to fight your neighbor who has nuclear bombs. so I don’t blame anyone for taking a cautious approach. But the west seems to be all in on support. https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-coordinate-arms-shipments-ukraine/[/quote]

      Where were they a month ago? Two weeks ago? A week ago? Yesterday? Just yesterday, Zelenskiy was telling his people that they are on their own, that no other countries were coming to help them to defend their freedom and their country. It was chilling.

      Everyone knew this was coming, and was timed to start just after the Olympics so not to piss off Xi Jinping. The West did nothing, NOTHING to prevent it. Cities are being blown up. Residential sections targeted and civilians killed. Biden’s big speech and follow up answers said Putin will be feeling the pain in 30 days. 30 days! This will be over in 3, or so most people thought.

      Finally, the Europeans are realizing that it won’t be just Ukraine, and they’re scared. They need to be. The guy is hell bent on recapturing the old Soviet Union. So they’re sending token help. It’s better than nothing, but it appears to be a day late and a dollar short.

    • #5825
      BeyondThunderdomeBeyondThunderdome
      Participant

      A few days ago it was the West’s fault for goading Russia into this war and now you’re complaining that we didn’t send in enough arms over the last few months which would have been even more provocative.

      NO MALARKEY

    • #5827
      cardcrimsoncardcrimson
      Participant

      Where did I say, or anyone say, we goaded Putin into this war. That’s a narrative I’ve yet to hear. Putin has wanted to rebuild the USSR. Belarus came easy with a fixed election. The Baltics are part of NATO which will be difficult. Ukraine was an easy target, especially as we sat on our hands when he took Crimea.

       

    • #5828
      BeyondThunderdomeBeyondThunderdome
      Participant

      You didn’t. Neodymium’s posted previously that he blamed, in part, the western press and said Putin didn’t want this war.

      NO MALARKEY

    • #5829
      rjnwmillrjnwmill
      Participant

      [quote quote=5825]A few days ago it was the West’s fault for goading Russia into this war and now you’re complaining that we didn’t send in enough arms over the last few months which would have been even more provocative.[/quote]

      If western governments were pleased with past support levels why then, with the benefit of hindsight are they daily undertaking course corrections?  Ratcheting up their response?

      As you say, engagement is risky.  After Putin has threatened Norway and Sweden directly, after an implied nuclear threat, it seems to me that the delay in the decision to ship in weapons becomes more difficult to accomplish and certainly as provocative from Putin’s perspective.

      The west’s acknowledgment of past policy problems, specifically the decision to delay support for the Ukrainians, is seen in full relief with each subsequent course correction.

      Here's a toast with one last pour, may it last forever and a minute more;
      Good fortune seems to you have sung, to live and love way past long

    • #5834
      AvatarNeodymium60
      Participant

      I had it wrong.  I thought 3 would be it but we are now at 2.

       

       

      • #5836
        AvatarMick
        Participant

        I had it wrong. I thought 3 would be it but we are now at 2.

        Pretty sure we’re at 3.  We’ve only been at 2 twice, during the Cuban missile crisis and briefly at the beginning of the first Gulf War (thought that condition existed only for portions of the military, not the entire U.S. Military).

        We’ve been at DefCon 3:

        1. Now
        2. During 9/11
        3. Yom Kippur War
        4. Operation Paul Bunyan (Korean tensions in 1976).

        https://www.defconlevel.com/history/defcon-level-in-1976.php

    • #5835
      AvatarMick
      Participant

      Fox is reporting that Ukrainian citizens are asking a couple simple questions; If you saw this coming for 60-90 days, why didn’t you do anything until after the fact? Why sanctions as opposed to weapons? Two very fair questions. The West has abandoned Ukraine. Shameful.

      See Pullout, Afghanistan.

    • #5837
      AvatarNeodymium60
      Participant

      The link is showing a deuce.   If so something is very odd.  I’m on an airbase for lunch right now and I’d expect to see some tankers on the runway.  But just a normal day.

    • #5838
      AvatarMick
      Participant

      You’re right, Defcon Level 2.

      https://www.defconlevel.com/current-level.php

    • #5841
      rjnwmillrjnwmill
      Participant

      How long till we step up and put an end to the indiscriminate killing of civilians?

      The Russian convoys heading to Kiev look like the Iraqis fleeing Kuwait. A kill zone. Perhaps it’s also time for a no fly zone?  A twelve hour warning?

      Failing that, how do we dissuade further military expansionism by our competitors?  The shits hit the fan. Thanks Obama. Can you rush more blankets and MRE’s?

      Here's a toast with one last pour, may it last forever and a minute more;
      Good fortune seems to you have sung, to live and love way past long

    • #5839
      Avatarrogpodge
      Participant

      https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/ukraines-deadly-gamble

      Here’s a good explanation of the (recent) history that lead to the invasion.  I think we can all agree that the initial sanctions were garbage.  Yesterday’s announced sanctions were the result of Germany reassessing its energy policy and realizing they’ve taken the wrong path since the 1990’s.

      https://twitter.com/ShellenbergerMD/status/1498094616704217090

      Oh, and they finally decided to devote 2% of their GDP to defense… because they realize that their part of the world isn’t the safe haven they thought it would be.

      I get it.  Source, etc.  But this isn’t a Ukraine or recent development.

      How is the US doing on energy policy?

      You read that right.  The NRC decided to REVERSE itself and not renew the licenses for two nuclear plants because some “environmental” group called “Beyond Nuclear” said the renewal applications didn’t factor in effects from climate change.  Beyond stupid.  We are not a serious country when it comes to carbon emissions.

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