Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
[quote quote=4140]if it were a true insurrection and an attempt at a coup, would the infiltrators have been content to take selfies on the dais, in Pelosi’s office, etc.?[/quote]
I think you’re downplaying what happened. Several people died, including a cop who was bludgeoned to death. Many of these folks framed it as their last chance to “stop the steal” of a lawful democratic election. A mob forced their way into the building. They ransacked offices. They constructed a noose outside the Capitol building. Crowds were chanting for Mike Pence to be hanged and for Pelosi to be killed, among other outrageous and seditious things.
They were literally trying to force their way into the chamber at the moment the votes of a national election were being counted. Many hoped their show of force would somehow persuade Republicans or Pence to reject votes (not that he could). Who knows what they would have done if they had somehow caught up with Pence or Pelosi and others. I’m glad we didn’t have to find out.
Here’s some of the violence:
When you understand "the deep state" simply refers to the rule of law, it makes much more sense.
Change of topic? I responded to the topic I thought you raised (perhaps I misunderstood; my bad) and then finished the comment by talking about Trump / Georgia — the original topic.
When you understand "the deep state" simply refers to the rule of law, it makes much more sense.
@cardcrimson — I mentioned in a previous post last week that I didn’t really follow the Russia thing that closely and never commented one way or another on it. I will note, though, that it was initiated by Republicans, investigated by Republicans, and prosecuted by Republicans.
If you’re talking about the quid pro quo thing (Ukraine) — I am still of the opinion it was an abuse of power. And the fact that Trump was not held accountable is probably one reason why he felt emboldened to call the Secretary of State of Georgia (and who knows who else) to ask them to change the votes — which itself may be illegal and undemocratic at the very least.
When you understand "the deep state" simply refers to the rule of law, it makes much more sense.
My first post has two links. Neither have videos.
I assume you mean the video at the top of a Fox News article I linked in the second post. Those usually have long ads to start and are unrelated to the articles most of the time. I never click on them. I had no idea it was even there, if that’s what you’re talking about. I went to that link to read the article, not sit through an ad and watch a video.
Anyway, I watched the whole video (the Brian Kemp video, I assume you mean) and am still not clear on your point.
You might try just making your point rather than leading me on some cryptic wild goose chase. But I tried.
When you understand "the deep state" simply refers to the rule of law, it makes much more sense.
I genuinely have no idea which video you want me to view the 1:30 and 3:00 marks.
When you understand "the deep state" simply refers to the rule of law, it makes much more sense.
Edit: this was meant to be a reply to rjnwmill.
I’m not clear on what the AJC has to do with this besides simply reporting the results of the audit. Did they misreport it? If you prefer a different source, here’s a Fox News article about it.
If they want to examine the ballots in Fulton County, be my guest. I’m sure if they find nothing substantial the goalposts will move again, though.
As for the rest of your post, it has nothing to do with the topic (a recurring thing). But I’ll answer anyway. There is little accountability when police misuse their power. I don’t post all the stories and videos I see, but there are endless examples. I’m not even sure it’s a controversial topic. I think even conservatives often agree that more accountability is needed. As for Seattle, I said months ago all that crap was insane. I don’t support that either. Neither does Biden, from what I recall of his comments in one of the debates.
When you understand "the deep state" simply refers to the rule of law, it makes much more sense.
[quote] Hunter Biden is accused of selling access and influence. Why is he relevant? Because he is accused of selling access to, and the influence of… Joe Biden. Not just selling access and influence, but selling access and influence to China, and committing actual interference with the Ukrainian justice system. There is evidence for this, and it was suppressed by the media and Big Tech. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Wisconsin_gubernatorial_election[/quote]
Yeah, I’m familiar with the issue. But this is a thread about Trump doing controversial things as a lame duck President. If anyone wants to talk about Hunter Biden be my guest. But the response — at least the part about Hunter Biden — had nothing to do with the topic at hand. It’s a huge stretch even to call it a what-aboutism. It’s just completely off topic and an obvious attempt to deflect, change topics, etc.
When you understand "the deep state" simply refers to the rule of law, it makes much more sense.
You have me confused with someone else. I don’t recall making a single post or comment on the Mueller investigation, until now, much less Russia, Russia, Russia, as you put it.
I’m not sure what Hunter Biden has to do with this, but it is not surprising that his name gets dropped in a response to a thread about Trump. Can’t let an opportunity go by without mentioning Hunter Biden.
I am no fan of Clinton. If that’s the low bar you hold Trump to then it’s not much of a defense. And I don’t remember much about the PR pardons, but Wikipedia says they weren’t pardoned. Their sentences were commuted after 19 years on the condition they renounce violence. And they were not convicted of harming anyone. So it doesn’t really sound comparable. Even many in the military were horrified by these Blackwater guys. Let’s be honest – Trump pardoned these guys because Erik Prince and Betsy Devos are big donors. So much for draining the swamp.
And the “legal theater” in 2000 wasn’t remotely comparable. Gore asked for a recount in an extremely close vote in one single county. And eventually conceded without any caveats.
-
This reply was modified 5 years, 10 months ago by
.
-
This reply was modified 5 years, 10 months ago by .
When you understand "the deep state" simply refers to the rule of law, it makes much more sense.
[quote quote=4005]He certainly hasn’t been too controversial…but there’s still time.[/quote]
You mean besides pardoning every single Mueller defendant except the two that cooperated?
Or pardoning four men from Blackwater who massacred 14 people and wounded 17 others?
Or siding with Putin again in “Helsinki part II” where he contradicted Pompeo and the rest of our intelligence community regarding who was at fault for the worst security breach ever?
Or his months long campaign to undermine the election and confidence in our democratic institutions?
I’m curious what more he would have to do before you decided he was being controversial.
When you understand "the deep state" simply refers to the rule of law, it makes much more sense.
Grounded in reality? Analogies are fairly common rhetorical devices to illustrate a point.
You don’t like that I call them conspiracy theories? Fine. I’ll call them baseless claims that don’t stand up to scrutiny. But yeah, if you are basing your fraud proof on which law firm Biden hired then I would suggest you don’t have much of a case — and that is conspiratorial whether you like the term or not.
When you understand "the deep state" simply refers to the rule of law, it makes much more sense.
Bob, the key statement is “If 10,000 votes were switched from Trump to Biden”. What if 10k were switched from Biden to Trump (more likely given Georgia’s history)? What if this is just a bunch of bs like everything else that hasn’t stood up to scrutiny and has been thrown out of court by Trump appointed judges in many cases?
I’ll explain what happened: Someone saw something, didn’t understand what was actually happening, and now we have yet another conspiracy.
We’re talking about election overseen by Republican officials who undoubtedly voted for Trump. Hell, Raffensperger was a MAGA Tumper before Trump was even the front runner in 2016. You don’t think they would be all over this if there was a hint of actual impropriety? It would be like Governor Newsom or Bernie Sanders looking the other way if there was some clear fraud that favored Republicans in their state. It wouldn’t happen.
From the Washington Post:
Fulton County Elections Director Richard Barron refuted those claims on Friday, saying in a public meeting that no observers were ever told to leave the facility.
According to Barron, staff members who had been opening and flattening ballots for scanning started leaving the facility as their duties concluded.
Other election workers started to pack up, Sterling told The Associated Press in an interview. They put prepared ballots back in boxes and away under a table “to close out for the night.” Members of the media and Republican observers began to leave the building too.
Then, the supervisor onsite got a call from Barron, who instructed the team to continue scanning the ballots that had already been prepared. They pulled the same boxes of ballots back out, and resumed scanning, Sterling said.
“These aren’t magical ballots,” Sterling told the AP. “They didn’t show up out of some other room.”
After a short period when observers weren’t present, an independent state election board monitor arrived to oversee the scanning at 11:52 p.m., Barron said. A state investigator arrived at 12:15 a.m. Both individuals remained at the facility until the count concluded for the night, he said.
The Georgia secretary of state’s office said it was aware of the late-night counting, and confirmed that both its investigator and an independent monitor observed scanning “until it was halted for the night.”
The office said it had launched an investigation into why partisan poll observers left before scanning ended.
The president’s team is “intentionally misleading the public about what happened at State Farm Arena on election night,” Gabriel Sterling tweeted Friday. “They had the whole video too and ignored the truth.”
When you understand "the deep state" simply refers to the rule of law, it makes much more sense.
Gummi Bear is relying on exit polls for all methods and extrapolating it to just absentee ballots. We’ve known since before the election that absentee votes would lean more heavily Biden than average.
When you understand "the deep state" simply refers to the rule of law, it makes much more sense.
RJ,
Here’s another point of view. [I feel bad for Francis Watson, mentioned below. No doubt she is about to get a ton of death threats and harassment.] Some excerpts:
The officials said the ballots seen in the video were in regular ballot containers — not suitcases — and they had been removed from their envelopes and processed while news media and election observers for the Republican Party and Trump campaign were present. The media and party observers were never told to leave because counting was over for the night, but they apparently followed workers who left once their job of opening envelopes was completed, the chief investigator for the secretary of state told Lead Stories. The observers were free to return at anytime, she said. Georgia law allows observers, but does not require them to be there for ballots to be counted, she said.
Frances Watson, chief investigator for the Georgia secretary of state, told Lead Stories during a phone call on December 3, 2020, that the ballots were in standard containers, and the work during the time in question had nothing to do with pulling ballots from under a table. She said:
There wasn’t a bin that had ballots in it under that table. It was an empty bin and the ballots from it were actually out on the table when the media were still there, and then it was placed back into the box when the media were still there and placed next to the table.
A state election board monitor, who asked for his name not to be used due to safety concerns, told Lead Stories on the phone on December 3, 2020, that he was present at the vote counting location beginning at 11:52 p.m., after leaving briefly at earlier in the evening. He then stayed until about 12:45 p.m., when the work that night was completed.
The deputy chief investigator for the secretary of state’s office was present beginning at 12:15 a.m. November 4, he said.
The election monitor also told Lead Stories that between 8 p.m. on November 3, 2020, and 12:43 a.m. on November 4, 2020, the scanners had scanned about 10,000 ballots.
According to the Georgia Secretary of State’s office, Biden received 2,474,507 votes, while Trump received 2,461,837 — a winning margin of 12,670 votes for Biden. In other words, the votes counted during this period would not have changed the results of this election even if they all were switched from Trump to Biden.
Sterling said when he looked at the results, “there was nothing abnormal in the distribution of votes.”
When you understand "the deep state" simply refers to the rule of law, it makes much more sense.
Hi Rocky,
I’m not sure where you’re getting your facts. You might provide some sources. Anyway…
As I’m sure you know, turnout, demographics, etc. change from election to election. It depends who’s on the ballot, how the economy is doing, and many other variables. For every statistic that looks odd to you there may be a good reason.
Let’s take Milwaukee (I assume that’s the city you meant). In 2016 black voters in Milwaukee were historically not enthusiastic about Clinton. In 2020 the most reasonable explanation is that the numbers reverted to the mean. And, by the way, black votes overall in Milwaukee were down from 2016. So it seems unlikely they somehow swung the entire state to Trump.
Let’s look at Philadelphia: Trump actually gained votes there and increased his margin vs. 2016 by a couple percentage points.
Let’s look at Pennsylvania. They voted for the Democrat in six straight elections until 2016. Before the last election you have to go back to 1992 to find a Republican win. The last election was the anomaly, not this one. Exactly the same pattern for Michigan — six straight Democratic wins. Wisconsin has been even more solidly blue — until 2016 it voted for the Democrat in every election since Reagan in 1984. The more likely explanation than some phantom voter fraud is that people in those states tend to vote for Democrats and that 2016 was the anomaly.
You can’t have it both ways. You can’t say the anomalies in 2020, if there were any, are somehow proof of voter fraud, but the anomalies in 2016 just prove that Trump was popular.
If you’re interested in an actual analysis of why Republicans outperformed in Senate and House races, see here:
In reality, Democrats performed about the same in all three races, but the structures through which those results were filtered — the Electoral College, the Senate seats that happened to be up and a House map biased toward Republicans — produced different results.
“Trump was everywhere”. If you’re implying Biden didn’t campaign compared to Tump, I already debunked that. Regardless, this election was a referendum on Trump. Yes, I don’t know many people who were enthusiastic about voting for Biden, but everyone I know was enthusiastic about voting against Trump. They literally didn’t care who was on the ballot. I’ll give you an analogy: just because Duke can fill a stadium and gets high ratings on ESPN doesn’t mean America loves Duke. All the cheerleading of Dickie V. doesn’t make Duke “Americas team” anymore than Trump filling some stadiums makes him some kind of fan favorite. There are far more people that dislike Duke and Trump. They just don’t have rallies about it — though they did party in the streets across the nation when it was finally clear Biden would win enough electoral votes.
When you understand "the deep state" simply refers to the rule of law, it makes much more sense.
-
This reply was modified 5 years, 10 months ago by
