Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
@rogpodge: I had some family in town and was also working full-time, so finally getting a chance to reply to this …
My reading comprehension is fine. I did observe your comment about antibodies, but I took it to mean you had been infected with COVID since most folks who receive a vaccination wouldn’t otherwise get a subsequent blood test to verify antibodies in their blood. I’m sure there are exceptions and perhaps you are one of them. If you were vaccinated I’m glad to hear it. But to be fair, you were being a bit vague about it. You’re welcome to correct my assumptions about the source of your antibodies.
I realize CNN and any number of other left leaning media vilified Trump about the number of deaths for many months. It was political then and was political of Mick to do the same. Quite honestly, if Biden and Harris really were downplaying the virus or their policies were the source of the problem, then I would agree with Mick. But the numbers belie a different story. You can choose to tease out some different conclusion from the data, but it’s simply a fact that conservative adults in large numbers have been hesitant to get vaccinated and not so much on the liberal side. Whatever the reason, it’s quite a stretch to blame that on Biden.
Also, the mashup you posted was mostly out-of-context clips from before the vaccines were rolled out. The context: they were saying they wouldn’t simply trust the word of Trump – the guy who suggested injecting bleach – but said they would be happy to get vaccinated if there was a scientific consensus that the vaccines were safe. And indeed both Biden and Harris subsequently and very publicly did get vaccinated to encourage others to get it – quite the opposite of vaccine fear-mongering that your clips were trying to imply.
On the other hand, there are a lot of conservatives pushing an antivax agenda. Here’s a mashup: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEJufOyAbis
You also suggested that I am conflating being anti-vax with vaccine mandates. Actually, I believe it’s just the opposite. I do distinguish between the two. But I believe many conservatives are the ones conflating these two issues. They hear from Fox News and other outlets about the “Orwellian” government (a term you used yourself) and we see in the data and in endless real-life examples that many of them are also anti-vax or fearful of getting vaccinated. I can’t prove they are conflating the two issues, but the Venn Diagram of the two groups no doubt has a significant overlap.
When Trump (to his credit) suggested his supporters should get vaccinated he was booed at rally in Alabama: https://goodwordnews.com/trump-booed-at-rally-in-alabama-after-telling-supporters-to-get-vaccinated/
Something similar happened to Lindsay Graham: https://www.thedailybeast.com/republicans-shout-down-rep-lindsey-graham-for-pushing-vaccine
NO MALARKEY
[quote quote=5421]“He was fully vaccinated” according to a statement released by his family.[/quote]
He had undergone treatment for multiple myeloma, a type of blood cancer that can weaken the immune system.
NO MALARKEY
No need to indulge your question. At this point the people who aren’t getting vaccinated are choosing not to get vaccinated.
NO MALARKEY
@rogpodge: I had some family in town and was also working full-time, so finally getting a chance to reply to this …
My reading comprehension is fine. I did observe your comment about antibodies, but I took it to mean you had been infected with COVID since most folks who receive a vaccination wouldn’t otherwise get a subsequent blood test to verify antibodies in their blood. I’m sure there are exceptions and perhaps you are one of them. If you were vaccinated I’m glad to hear it. But to be fair, you were being a bit vague about it. You’re welcome to correct my assumptions about the source of your antibodies.
I realize CNN and any number of other left leaning media vilified Trump about the number of deaths for many months. It was political then and was political of Mick to do the same. Quite honestly, if Biden and Harris really were downplaying the virus or their policies were the source of the problem, then I would agree with Mick. But the numbers belie a different story. You can choose to tease out some different conclusion from the data, but it’s simply a fact that conservative adults in large numbers have been hesitant to get vaccinated and not so much on the liberal side. Whatever the reason, it’s quite a stretch to blame that on Biden.
Also, the mashup you posted was mostly out-of-context clips from before the vaccines were rolled out. The context: they were saying they wouldn’t simply trust the word of Trump – the guy who suggested injecting bleach – but said they would be happy to get vaccinated if there was a scientific consensus that the vaccines were safe. And indeed both Biden and Harris subsequently and very publicly did get vaccinated to encourage others to get it – quite the opposite of vaccine fear-mongering that your clips were trying to imply.
On the other hand, there are a lot of conservatives pushing an antivax agenda. Here’s a mashup: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEJufOyAbis
You also suggested that I am conflating being anti-vax with vaccine mandates. Actually, I believe it’s just the opposite. I do distinguish between the two. But I believe many conservatives are the ones conflating these two issues. They hear from Fox News and other outlets about the “Orwellian” government (a term you used yourself) and we see in the data and in endless real-life examples that many of them are also anti-vax or fearful of getting vaccinated. I can’t prove they are conflating the two issues, but the Venn Diagram of the two groups no doubt has a significant overlap.
When Trump (to his credit) suggested his supporters should get vaccinated he was booed at rally in Alabama: https://goodwordnews.com/trump-booed-at-rally-in-alabama-after-telling-supporters-to-get-vaccinated/
Something similar happened to Lindsay Graham: https://www.thedailybeast.com/republicans-shout-down-rep-lindsey-graham-for-pushing-vaccine
NO MALARKEY
rodgepodge: I suppose you should ask Mick why he chose to politicize it. I was responding to him when he implied it was Biden’s fault that cases had risen and made a snide comment about Psaki. You think this post from Mick wasn’t political?
“There have been 2x as many American COVID deaths on Biden’s watch as on Trump’s watch (dating from election results). 242,303 up to the 2020 election, 485,407 afterward (and counting). Waiting for a White House reporter to ask Jen Psaki to confirm that.”
I didn’t say a word about Covid for months until he posted this.
You don’t like my KFF numbers, but I also cited Gallup. The latest Pew poll has similar results. And anecdotally I’ve seen many clips and heard of many conservative talking heads pushing an anti vax agenda. I haven’t come across that on the left, except for some fringe folks. I mean your own post finished by explaining how vaccinations aren’t so important for many people… So yes, I believe the ~90% number. And I also believe the much lower number for conservatives.
If you don’t want to get vaccinated, don’t. Good luck to you.
NO MALARKEY
“Covid cases and deaths have been over counted, perhaps materially by CDC.”
The Economist runs their own model for all countries and regions in the world and compares their results to the official data of each country (apparently the CDC for the U.S. based on a footnote). Long story short, they seem to think the CDC is materially undercounting the deaths.
I don’t think there’s any conspiracy to make the numbers look bad. If you compare the US to other countries, we actually look reasonably good (relatively speaking).
You can quibble with the numbers, but if you’re suggesting it’s not such a big deal then I think that’s incorrect. Even using the lower numbers, the number of deaths has surpassed the combined total deaths from all major US wars.
And the problems extend far beyond deaths. People who contract Covid often develop chronic and serious health issues.
True, it affects people more as they are older and I am not going to argue about the guidance or mandates. I have various opinions about it — some of which may agree with yours (possibly). But I think it’s clear adults should be vaccinated.
NO MALARKEY
A Gallup poll from a couple weeks ago confirms the KFF survey:
There are also other studies correlating counties that voted for Trump with having much lower rates of vaccination. Similarly, counties in California that voted to recall Newsom had much lower rates.
Why are Republicans hesitant? I’m sure there’s some “my freedom” element and some correlation with not trusting the government. But as I said several months ago, there’s also a lot of anti-vax propaganda coming from right wing media — and not just the fringe, but mainstream conservative media like Fox.
Long story short, I don’t really care what Biden or Psaki have to say about it at this point. I’m sure you can nitpick about things they could have done better, but if I suggest, ask, or beg you to do something — and you have ample time and opportunity to do it — and you still refuse, the fault is not mine.
NO MALARKEY
Probably related to the fact that many Republicans won’t get vaccinated. The latest data from KFF indicates more than a third are “Definitely not” getting vaccinated, will only get vaccinated if required, or taking a wait and see approach. You can lead them to water but can’t make them drink.
You can still get Covid if you’re vaccinated, but the death rate, as you probably know, is a tiny fraction of those that are unvaccinated.
Lack of vaccinations, plus the emergence of the delta variant caused rates to rise. Per the CDC:
the country appeared to be on its way to emerging from the pandemic early this summer, when new infections plunged below 12,000 a day and deaths fell below 200 a day.
But then the highly transmissible delta variant became the nation’s dominant strain, fueling another wave that saw cases and deaths rise and many hospitals get overwhelmed. Southern states, where vaccination rates were the lowest, were hit especially hard.
I remember PL said this political divide was some sort of “trope” that should be disregarded. But at this point the evidence is hard to ignore.
NO MALARKEY
Good catch. I was thinking of the beginning of his term, not the end. My bad. It’s only been two decades.
I promise to stop mentioning Trump 20 years from now instead of 29 years. You can hold me to that.
NO MALARKEY
Well, there are thousands of counties so it’s statistically significant and not likely to be some anomaly.
As you suggested, there is also a correlation with education level. But less education does not automatically imply someone will necessarily be an anti-vaxxer. That wasn’t the case with polio, for example. More likely it has a basis in conservative media and politics. I admit that’s just a hunch. But invariably the antivaxxers, anti-maskers, etc., that I’ve come across tend to be MAGA folks.
NO MALARKEY
Just so we’re clear, it’s been 29 years since Bill Clinton left office and 8+ years since Hillary Clinton held office. And yet I get criticized if I dare invoke Trump’s name occasionally — a guy who left office less than six months ago and is still very relevant in politics.
Clinton Derangement Syndrome and Trump Sensitivity Syndrome on display.
NO MALARKEY
RJ, you apparently didn’t read my first link above. It was published by the same folks that published your link (KFF). Race doesn’t tell the full story as nearly a third of Hispanics and black voters are Trump voters. So they also looked at identification of the unvaccinated by political party.
I also mentioned the plurality and majority were Republican. Never claimed there were no Democrats.
I do find it ironic that you of all people accuse me of being partisan when you haven’t posted a single non-partisan comment in decades.
NO MALARKEY
Trump is still the leader of the Republicans. If you don’t see that you’re not paying attention. I’m not going to pretend he doesn’t exist while GOP figures like McCarthy are still paying obeisance to him. And I have no idea why he got vaccinated, but I do have a good idea why he kept it quiet.
You’re welcome to address my main point- that anti-vaxxers tend to be Republicans. The idea that Biden is somehow at fault for this, by your implication, seems absurd.
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/04/republicans-anti-vaccine-herd-immunity
NO MALARKEY
